Thread regarding SAS Institute layoffs

“…and try to paint the most attractive picture you can…”

The Art Department, which is safe, is working on that.

@11w I'm sorry that my comment was meaningless to you. Let me clarify.

I was agreeing with @nf's comment, that at SAS are some staggering egos. I agreed that the presence of large egos is ironic, given that SAS has failed to innovate, or even grow revenues, for several decades.

The people with the egos have demonstrably not done their job -- and yet, they still think they're good at it. This is characteristic of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

All that said, I believe my point is also valid. These people are being paid to sell the company. So, it's their job to consistently promote a positive vision, even without producing positive results.

In promoting the company, using a positive spin, I think they actually do a decent job -- even though they've failed to grow revenues.

@xz “ While not discounting the proportion of staggering egos, with so little reason for them”. Such a generic and meaningless comment.

I can also say there are tons of humble people that have every reason to have staggering egos
Or
There are lots of people with staggering egos with every reason to have them
Or
There are lots of id--ts that know they are id--ts

All the combinations work in a super generic way. But still meaningless to say.

Every company, society has the exact same thing.

@nf While not discounting the proportion of staggering egos, with so little reason for them, there is an alternative explanation for the "delusion".

When you are trying to sell a company, you spin everything positive, use all the latest buzzwords, and try to paint the most attractive picture you can.

If someone says negative things, you sideline them -- because you don't want a negative impression of what you are trying to sell.

That said, everything you wrote is true -- except the statement that "SAS has failed to do anything meaningful in the last 20 years."

Man, it's been at least 30.

In the land of Lake Whoa Be Gone, where AI lives, everyone is at or below average.

Reality testing the delusion would lead to a crippling ego death.

Could the folks mentioned survive being “average” after years of believing they were gods? I think not.

I think this encapsulates why the company is in a state of managed decline.

There are some staggering egos, which is hilarious given that SAS has failed to do anything meaningful in the last 20 years.

The head of RnD seems to actually believe SAS is competitive with companies like Databricks, despite being incapable of delivering, see: multi-tenancy, CI/CD, metered billing, being able to deploy SAS's software in under an hour, etc.

Why does this enduring delusion exist? Because anyone who points out reality is sidelined.

Across the company, orgs throw tantrums if anyone provides constructive feedback; regardless of tone.

There are blithering mo--ns in upper management who just repeat things like "agentic" and "ai native" or unironically make statements like "I have agents working for me around the clock" as if this isn't a clear example of linkedin psychosis. - dare to point this out? Sidelined.

There is a serious culture issue in the company.

@ms — I have no opinion on outside issues.

@mf well done internet shrink.

Are you saying that there are not legitimately contemptible things in the world? If so then you are wrong. If not then it is merely a judgement call on where the line of contemptible is. You don’t get to decide for others.

You can certainly judge others for what they find contemptible.

But keep in mind that being judgmental is widely considered one of the strongest indicators of narcissism. It goes beyond standard anger; it’s a toxic mix of disgust and perceived superiority.

@ay — Contempt is widely considered one of the strongest indicators of narcissism. It goes beyond standard anger; it’s a toxic mix of disgust and perceived superiority.

"@f9 BS. Who is the manager? You can manage to provide it without a direct name."

I actually can appreciate the skepticism. But whether you believe me or not won't matter. Not going to provide info on the manager -- it was many years ago, we are both retired now ... and the message was coming from above him, so see no benefit in exposing him.

@f9 BS. Who is the manager? You can manage to provide it without a direct name.

@gd Because, in the OP's words, it was an architectural disaster, and the engineers knew, but speaking up just wasn't worth it.

Why reference Viya? OP didn't.

@dw Hari Seldon would have spelled his name correctly.

@f0 In my (coding-based) product area, we decided ourselves to make the Viya product 99% or so backward compatible with SAS9. It was the only sensible course of action.

"and calling their baby ugly was hazardous to one's career"

Literally had my manager tell us that criticism of Viya would put one's job in jeopardy.

As discussed on multiple threads, it's easy for different people to have different experiences at SAS.



Much depends on one's manager. Strong managers welcome constructive criticism. Weak ones respond by reducing raises and bonuses, issuing trumped-up charge sheets, and threatening termination. That happened to me, and it happened to others.

Much also depends on the specific criticism. For example, at the time of its construction, multiple people observed that Viya was not backward-compatible with SAS. If people had pushed back, would this problem have been fixed?

No. There was no possibility. Leadership believed the new syntax was an improvement, and calling their baby ugly was hazardous to one's career. This problem has still not been fixed.

If "plenty of people" are currently "pushing back in the right ways", there is no evidence their pushback has been effective. The company is ~25% smaller than it used to be.

@c0

Since everyone else is a qualified internet shrink I’ll follow along.

The “I fiercely pushed back” coupled with the “trumped up charge sheet” is a classic example of people finding a way to make themselves the hero of their own story.

SAS is evil. I fought that evil with all my might.

Yeah ok. Believe it or not there were a ton of people who frankly deserved to be let go. There are still a ton of people that deserve to be let go. And not because of “pushing back”. Because of basic skill levels, adaptability and/or work ethic.

I’m sure there are gasps of astonishment coming from most people reading that last thought.

Again I see plenty of people (IC’s) push back (in the right ways) and are encouraged to do so. I’ll warrant there will never be “trumped up charge sheets” against any of these people. I’m not talking 3 people here…

@br Impressive internet psychoanalysis of an anonymous internet person. Your skills must be top notch. Even Harry Seldon would have struggled to accomplish that.

Fiercely pushed back and received a trumped up charge sheet for my efforts.

Yes. Existential dread and contempt in equal parts.

Why would it engender such feelings and thoughts, especially if it could prevent the hiring or retention of the wrong personnel?

@b5
Dunning-Kruger + survivorship bias, my friend. You're not all that.

@b1 Weird. I and many others consistently push back and have open discussions. Not a single trumped up chart sheet or push back on the push back.

And oddly have never “learned helplessness”. Sounds lame.

SAS discouraged open discussion. That's why it so consistently failed to innovate.

The record of flat revenues and ~25% headcount reduction shows that the people pushing back were right to try.

For their efforts, some received trumped-up charge sheets. Most were just branded "difficult" or "not team players" and received smaller paychecks. A few were forced out of the company.

Many left of their own volition, and many who stayed learned helplessness.

Unfortunately, learned helplessness is a sensible position now. It's way too risky to push back at a company that is laying people off.

@ak Yes. Existential dread and contempt in equal parts.

@a6
Does the thought that someone might do that fill you with existential dread or something? You might just as well have posted "Here come all the responses about how fiercely people did push back and were punished for not being a team player" or, really, anything else.

Here come all the responses about how fiercely people did push back and received trumped up charge sheets as a result…