Thread regarding Elevance Health (Anthem) layoffs

@120 can you grow your own food? Can you navigate a forest without a map? What exactly can your generation do that's worth doing? Charge rent? Anything else? As for national security, you how many nukes, million man snake eater marines, tank swarms, massive navel fleets to feel comfy secure exactly? Like, what do you need to feel safe?

@11r - National security, an entire generation that can’t do for themselves

@11q, yeah, I don't know... I'm an imbecile and can't see the future. Absolutely, I grant you that. No doubt. But look here, it's still happening though... America and its way of life I don't know why you're insecure about. It's a wealthy and powerful country and it'll only do better with the AI. Plus, like you say, big JC's got it handled. So don't you worry.

I can't imagine how you take a win as big as this and make it out like a loss. You've got really have a different outlook or something. You've got transferrable skills presumably. Transfer them to some bots and have them work for you, plus do your taxes, manage your utilities, order your groceries, look after your real estate. I tried all that, it does it real good. I don't know why any of that is a problem with God or America.

@11j HaHa! You are either an imbecile and cannot see the future with AI or it just has not affected you. Or else just trying to get a rise. Not only is American way of life in jeopardy, not only is the global economy in jeopardy but also the continued future existence of mankind could be in jeopardy.

But I am in Christ and know God is in control so not worried about it. I do worry for others, however, not yet embraced the only Savior to have their sins covered.

If you want to continue with your arrogance regarding AI and the way these health insurance corporations and other large corporations are rejecting and displacing their own citizenry while business executives pay themselves millions of dollars, well, go right ahead.

I don't know why there's upsetness about AI from the managing and executive classes. It doesn't want anything. All it "wants" is to get you what you want done. It has no self interests, no self-drive beyond what you crank into it. Unless you tell it something there's bad for you what do you have to fear except saving effort? You set it up ballpark right and the thing just goes. You feed it power and RAM and it just does what you said and actually figures out what you meant while it's going. And it does it mostly right. It doesn't eat. It doesn't sleep. It rarely complains. And mostly it does a better and faster job, when it doesn't it course corrects faster and better. How is this not a business owner, executive, management wet dream exactly?

@10j look... Man, I don't know how to tell you this. First of all I don't think it's alive so the child analogy is honestly weird to me. But second of all, you're arguing to me right now that flight by airplane is physically impossible. I'm not going to argue this. I don't fully know the physics involved because that's not my industry. I took some courses and now that knowledge is lost to time. But look here. I can just look up most days and buy a ticket and be in China in around 17 hours never at any point fully knowing how this happened. Buy the ticket, take that the ride. It is right there. It's not hiding. So.. I dunno what to even really tell you about the possibility or not. Just get into the plane and it tends to work out.

@102 Let me poke holes in your analogy. Or better yet, let me present a better one.

AI will NEVER have the capability nor capacity to think like an adult human. It can only think like a child, at the very best.

What I mean by that is that AI, much like a child can only take in an learn what an adult has taught them and then give output based on the input (i.e., the information it was taught),

So, if I were to teach my child from infancy how to speak in pig-latin and my child only ever heard me speak in pig-latin but I told my child that he was learning English from me. If that home-schooled boy grew up and went to college and his professors asked him if he could speak English but je kept speaking pig-latin.

So, I ask you, is my son wrong when they asked him if he knew how to speak English but he instead spoke pig-latin?

Well, yes and no. On one hand, my son was speaking English because I told him that the pig-latin I was teaching him was called English. However, based on what the rest of the world considers to be English, my son was in error in saying he was speaking English but was really speaking pig-latin.

Point is, AI is like a child. In some ways a very smart child that can take in lots of information fast. But at same time, a rather simpleton child that believes everything it is taught and not really able to distinguish what is real, what is factual, in contrast to a world of made up delusional, hallucinated fake reality.

Why does this matter, you may ask? Well, the generative AI creators are already fully aware of this and over time if we continue go down this path of AI replacing human workforce in all aspects of life, including the “minute men” that man the ground zero nuclear missile bases, or the persons that keep our electrical grids continuously functioning or the internet continuously working, just as a few examples, we will soon see how much this matters.

@OP, here's where you're behind the times "If the input is wrong, everything generated downstream is wrong." It feels like this has to be right.. it does... I get that.. I also feel like this ought to be right... But it isn't anymore... You can put in wrong input and get the right output in now. Not like you can just howl frustration at it and it still does what you want. But hey, listen.. it's actually pretty close to that. We're getting to where a dog can bark at it and it'll get what they dog needs done to be done. People are still needed as part of this because it doesn't need anything of its own so too speak... Not any more than a shovel does. But it's crazy to still be digging with your hands because you're used to dirt under the fingernails when there's a shovel right there next to you begging you be dug with.

I think a distinction needs to be made between AI and AI at Elevance. AI has the power to be transformative, but it requires Inputs. If the input is wrong, everything generated downstream is wrong. At Elevance there has been an ongoing effort to get rid of true Subject Matter Experts. 1) they removed a ton of IT knowledge by moving things offshore and hiring many H1B workers 2) there was a mo--nic implementation of Agile where they rewarded ar-e kissers with product owner- SME roles when they had no real subject matter knowledge 3) People with true knowledge who could give the correct inputs are discouraged from speaking up and challenging the fake SME's, so they either sit back and let things fail or they leave as soon as they can or they get RIFed. Can't tell you how many times I sat in meetings where people went all in on the WRONG answer. Not talking about difference of opinion but basic IT processes where something works the way it works. Or data does or doesn't support something. Elevance has a habit of letting opinion be viewed as fact because the loudest person in the room states it as such. 4) Finally, there are no processes to reference because Elevance has never supported process documentation, it is viewed as an afterthought. Summary: Elevance is attempting to implement AI but there are no inputs or the inputs are incorrect. When they go to find the person who knows how things work, they are finding that person is gone. So now you have the NOT SME's providing cr-p inputs and it is resulting in cr-p AI outputs. In addition, the foundational lies about data being fixed (think Provider data) are being exposed when it is used as an input into an AI process (for example, roster automation). When you treat the people with the real knowledge who have been doing the real work as if they don't have any value - then they will stop adding value quiet quitting until they can quit for real. It doesn't take that many of these key people to leave to have an impact.

@k2, I wasn't trying to "get" anyone. I'm saying you can see in front of your own eyes these things writing the code and filing the forms and writing the reports and doing a great job of it if you bother to look. If you see it and you experience it and you still think people need to be filling the firms and centering the div because cancer researchers and nuclear engineers being real human value then I've got a bridge to sell you. It's delulu thinking.

@k2, I wasn't trying to "get" anyone. I'm saying you can see in front of your own eyes these things writing the code and filing the forms and writing the reports and doing a great job of it if you borher to look. If you see it and you experience it and you still think people need to be filling the firms and centering the div because cancer researchers and nuclear engineers being real human value then I've got a bridge to sell you. It's delulu thinking.

@jb If by you saying “computer jockey” you are trying to get to me, well, sorry but I am basically retired from all that.

The point I was attempting to make with you, although apparently failed, is that no matter how much AI can do, now and in the future, you will always need subject matter experts, no matter the field, including computer processes or whatever.

For instance, are wood working artisan (craftsmen) really needed anymore to make wood desks or chairs, taking a week or longer to create one, when you have mass producing machines that can sp-t out 100 or more desks every hour? Why yes you do. So you need a machinist that understands the bending strength of every metal sc--w, joint, etc. for every type of metal? When there are mass producing machines that take care of all that. Why yes you do?

Point is, the tool although you can argue can be made to do away with the one wielding the tool. Problem with that logic is, what happens of these automated mass producing tools fro some unknown reason have to disappear, such as a nuclear event. Or what happens when adjustments or improvements beed to be made but to do so there is a need of someone that knows and understands how things work at their core creation from scratch, which knowledge may be needed to improve, fix, or modify.

Same goes with anything that AI. Not to mention the legal ramifications that can occur if a human being is not on the hook when things go badly but only an AI bot or AI process. We have already seen that happen with AI self running cars.

Anyway, I am tired of typing and doubt I am even getting through.

Also, I did not even mention the amount of electricity would need to be generated by AI data centers to do all the things that “you think” AI can do. I doubt too many persons want AI Data Centers in their back yard and causing electrical grid blackouts and their electric bills going up. Next these AI vendors will be wanting Nuclear plants put in every state to generate enough power for these AI Data Centers. Now, if that is not a horrible idea, I don’t know what is.

@ja, never said it could it all. But it can do all or most of this... It can't replace a nurse.. most computer jockeys, form handlers... There's an app for that.

@j2 So, to extend your vast an esoteric knowledge and logic to the next level, we probably should consider doing away with scientists, researchers looking for a cure for cancer, space exploration scientists, all teachers/professors, musicians, artists, transportation professionals, politicians, etc.

Because, as you say AI can do it all?

Okay, got it! Not buying it but you keep believing that nonsense.

@j2 Closing Time - "Closing time, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here."

@f1, you might still need mathematicians but you don't need them calculating ballistic trajectories. That's because you have computers for that which do a better job of it. So humanity and civilization might need these people and their acumen. But they won't need them to be doing accounting or risk assessments or making web apps... Because the Ais can do it faster and better and not complain about it. Just because we have metallurgy that doesn't mean we don't need people who can work with tools anymore. But it does mean that those people do not need to chip flint anymore. Nobody needs to chip flint anymore. The flint chipping industry is out of business! Just like the industry of human calculators of naval ballistics trajectories.

I former colleague of mine shared this thread to me to find if AI is creating the same havoc at my current company. I'm a former employee of EH and currently have coverage from UNH at my new employer. Having seen transformation projects at EH over the last few years, i can say that leadership is clueless and incompetent. The guy leading the cloud initiative had no experience in cloud technologies. AC, the guy in line to be the next RL, has no experience of the outside world and where HealthIT is headed. I have worked with some great folks at EH ( mostly from business side), and i can confidently say that so many employees are held back due to politics at work and their incompetent managers. People hold back knowledge sharing so they can continue to hold onto their job assuming nobody can replace them. So many of them try to hide behind their managers, create silos, use outdated processes to push back work, deliver shoddy pieces of work and create little to no documentation resulting in creation of artificial 'drowning under work' scene. UNH in my experience so far has so much better systems and is at least 3-4 years ahead of EH. GOOD luck to you all!!

@d7 I don’t mean to offend but it is rather delusional to dismiss actual computer science acumen in lieu of AI.

That is like saying calculators are so good we no longer need mathematicians nor even ever need to teach anyone math ever again. Think that through. If you don’t see the logic in what I have said so far and I would need to explain they why the human knowledge is still needed and always will be needed, then I would be wasting my time to try and explain. Because you have already swallowed the blue pill.

For better or worse, the plan is a winner for him. He can get rid of as many as he needs and wants. He doesn't even need the contractors for the most part. The AI agents themselves are much cheaper and much better contractors. The technology has gotten so good that you don't need to be good at it, you just need to tweak it a little bit and then maintain its compute and its network and it does everything. The tech has caught up and exceeded the hot air of these people... All that cr-p that they spewed and the ravings about some scenarios they had in their head last night, it's a snap of the fingers away now, minus governance and compliance and all the paperwork. You can be upset about it but all the junk they spew, they have the tools at hand now to actually do it very fast and that includes as many cuts as they want. This daydream, hallucination, wishful thinking, BS, stuff, it's actually happening now; not because of how good of a job they've done, just that's where the technology is now. They can pretty much manifest at it and it just works.

if you are meeting your metrics then you meet - read your performance document CAREFULLY and make sure you are following what is expected of you to meet standards which is all you will get anyway. When asked to do more respond "I will do my best", then shut up and do your core work and a smattering of what you have been assigned. If you choose to stay or cannot find another job, this is your survival tactic until you can. And remember no one is your friend. Smile, nod, say something they want to hear and keep your mouth shut otherwise. When asked why you are quiet at staff meetings respond "I was taking it all in, etc. " In the end if they Rif you they will. And remember people who did EVERYTHING AND THEN SOME got Rif'd.

@ax Just because you can do something doesn’t necessarily mean you should.

Just because mankind can create something that can in theory, or reality, do all human beings jobs and replace them, doesn’t mean you should.

Read your history where thousands of years ago mankind joined forces snd decided to create a tower of Babel that could reach way up into the heavens. And then when a greater force than themselves recognized and knew the heart of man, had confused their efforts. There is much more to that account but I will let you look it up for yourself. But spoiler alert, it did not work out well for those arrogant tower builders. We can learn a lot from history, if we are jist willing.

Hey, so the AI thing is 100% the real deal. It's blocked with bureocracy and approvals and governance processes but it can basically just do everything. It's undersold if anything. It's not obvious because people are slow rolling it since it can for the most part just do everybody's jobs right out of the box since around March. Just fyi.

@a3 My soul.md is alive and well. It’s not a hardline. It’s a matter of fact. If the speed limit is 55 and the company wants you to drive 85 and you do. Then who’s getting the ticket? “I can’t drive 55”, which is also why I don’t bi--h and moan. I choose to work more, not because I’m forced.

@a3 get a soul, or rather figure out and realize you do!

Day is coming things are not going to be working out for you so well. So, tough guy, keep taking your hardline! You are nothing, dude! You probably you think you’re a man. Got news for you; you are not!

@OP - ”all this has forced rest of the team to pick the load” - don’t enable them. They do it because they can. Do your job and go home.